[About the problems with WN8]

14 hours ago, Caryon said:

This table does not differ from wrong v30 in any aspect except numbers.

V31 is just a reformat of V30, as it is no longer necessary to have a row for every tank anymore. 

[About the problems with WN8]

On 12/08/2017 at 6:47 AM, Mr 13 said:

In recent times, the most common question about WN8 has been the difference of its values in the XVM and on the third-party sites. We repeatedly answered that questions and decided that it would be better to collect key information about the problem in one message.

 

One important thing you need to know before we start: We(XVM Team) are not developers of the WN8 rating and we have nothing to do with them.

 

Why WN8 in XVM is different from those on some third-party websites?

XVM uses table of expected values v.29.1. It's the latest available correct table. Some other websites uses table v.30, which is incorrect. It can't even be called WN8.

 

Why table v.30 is incorrect?

WN8 is not static formula. It also uses a table of expected values which must be collected and updated in strict accordance with the methodology which was created by WN8 developers.

Unfortunately, formula developers no longer support their expected value table.
However, there are some enthusiasts who decided to fill the table manually, but not in accordance with the methodology by WN8 developers. I.e. instead of filling the table on the basis of real statistics, they adding values "by hand", mostly copying them from other tanks.
In fact, the rating calculated on the basis of the v.30 table can not be called WN8, because the fundamental bases of the calculation are violated.

 
What will be with WN8 in future?
At this moment there is no answer. WN8 is dying. The values which some sites shows under "WN8" name in fact is not WN8 at all.

If in the near future no one is going to collect the correct values for WN8, it can be excluded from the XVM.
Of course, we considered collecting expected values on our side. This could solve both the problem of correctness and a rare update of the table (and therefore sharp gap in the rating with every update), but with a detailed investigation of the WN8's developers method we found out out that collecting of values cannot be fully automated and requires manual control, which is inadmissible in our case.

 

....

 

The basis for the change to WN8 expected values that resulted in v30 (old format) and v31 (new format) was done with the full agreement of the WN8 team that's still around, for the following reasons:

• The continual flow of new tanks resulted in a workload that no-one wanted to support, and there were always 'missing' tanks - the old system was not sustainable
• The new method using v31 never has missing tanks, ever, and is sustainable with no work at all
• The new system reduces the expected value table to a 50 row table that is easy for modders to code into their mods as a static table
• WN8 was intended to be an account level rating, and the change to average per tier and type expected values make almost no difference to the rating for the vast majority of players
• Some tanks in some tiers are OP or UP compared to the others. The old system concealed that.
• The new system doesn't hide the OP and UP tanks - this increases the pressure on WG to fix the OP and UP tanks - which we all want, right?

So the change was made for sound reasons and it works. I'm sorry you dont like it. Its your decision what you include in XVM, but if you put WN8 in, you might as well do it the way it is now as the community is confused why WN8 is different on XVM to what it is elsewhere. Here is v31 expected values for WN8:

type	tier	frag	dmg	spot	def	win
1	1	1.69	223.29	1.42	1.40	58.15
1	2	1.40	240.21	1.63	1.51	58.00
1	3	1.21	290.59	1.71	1.32	57.68
1	4	0.92	329.26	1.75	1.11	55.86
1	5	0.69	393.22	2.40	0.75	54.30
1	6	0.61	511.48	2.28	0.65	52.51
1	7	0.65	702.70	2.10	0.67	51.16
1	8	0.70	860.12	2.40	0.71	51.82
1	9	0.68	1100.00	2.15	0.63	51.27
1	10	0.68	1400.00	2.15	0.63	51.27
2	1	1.83	232.98	0.91	1.16	58.30
2	2	1.48	251.45	1.23	1.27	57.78
2	3	1.32	318.93	1.22	1.28	58.30
2	4	1.06	395.45	1.36	1.07	56.09
2	5	1.02	513.45	1.41	1.05	54.45
2	6	1.00	745.25	1.45	1.00	53.92
2	7	0.95	928.14	1.46	0.99	53.53
2	8	0.88	1162.12	1.31	0.91	51.62
2	9	0.97	1540.28	1.32	0.80	50.96
2	10	1.03	1882.27	1.43	0.80	49.60
3	1	1.83	232.98	0.91	1.16	58.30
3	2	1.48	251.45	1.23	1.27	57.78
3	3	1.17	345.70	0.84	0.89	56.30
3	4	1.25	413.58	1.13	1.32	56.33
3	5	1.25	657.37	1.24	1.15	56.07
3	6	1.04	832.30	0.92	0.88	53.91
3	7	1.00	1106.68	1.02	0.92	54.23
3	8	0.92	1283.61	1.07	0.81	52.12
3	9	0.90	1579.22	0.98	0.68	51.03
3	10	0.95	1918.96	1.08	0.64	49.34
4	1	1.83	232.98	0.91	1.16	58.30
4	2	1.82	299.69	0.94	1.51	58.65
4	3	1.58	394.74	0.98	1.50	58.67
4	4	1.34	481.33	0.91	1.30	57.11
4	5	1.18	605.39	0.81	1.33	54.63
4	6	1.05	802.78	0.77	1.08	53.20
4	7	1.05	1053.92	0.84	1.10	52.86
4	8	1.01	1369.06	0.69	0.98	51.12
4	9	1.02	1719.84	0.69	0.81	50.82
4	10	1.12	2153.40	0.71	0.64	49.22
5	1	1.37	216.63	0.19	1.35	56.29
5	2	1.37	216.63	0.19	1.35	56.29
5	3	1.12	353.64	0.14	1.52	55.62
5	4	1.02	426.75	0.12	1.48	54.47
5	5	1.13	653.26	0.10	1.47	54.02
5	6	1.04	892.83	0.10	1.36	53.17
5	7	0.93	1094.53	0.06	1.02	51.91
5	8	0.90	1295.90	0.04	0.77	51.09
5	9	0.90	1525.78	0.04	0.74	50.33
5	10	0.93	1770.55	0.04	0.75	49.69

 

[Expected Values Update for WN8]

True

 

Ok we will just post it there in json, and that will be it

 

Thank you!

[Expected Values Update for WN8]

Hi,

 

Over at wotlabs we have finally agreed on a method for updating the expected values for WN8. We have new expected values ready to go and want to give them to you guys so xvm can use them too.

 

Seriych advised me to talk to sirmax or iBat about that.

 

We would like the update to be effective as of 1 July 2014. There will be further updates every 3 months after that, or sooner if there are new tanks.

 

sirmax or iBat please PM me so I can give you the new expected values, as I am new to this forum and cannot pm you.

 

Gryphon